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negotiating

Why Maintaining Rates In VO Matters

May 9, 2021 by Laura Schreiber

Recent Negotiation Examples

As a working, professional voice talent, one of the aspects of my job that I dread is negotiating rates with clients. When I think about “living the dream” part of the dream of pursuing my passion for voiceover as a talent, coach, and demo producer does not involve the back-and-forth banter to iron out a rate before a job begins. Yet, this banter is becoming more and more necessary as the days of jobs with desirable rates simply arriving in my in-box seem to be fewer that past years.

Accepting LessLet me share two experiences that happened in the past week. Last week, I heard from an Indie Video Game producer that I worked with in 2016. They were offering me the same role I played then. I had detailed notes in my CRM that they needed a discount as they were trying to launch the game with a kickstarter campaign. When I quoted them this time a normal, mid-range rate, they came back to me saying they were shocked that my rated had gone up. They went on to say that the five other talents had agreed to the rate they offered and they wanted to pay everyone the same. I referred them to the GVAA rate guide, which I will discuss later, and reminded them of the terms of 2016. They came up to my rate for me and for the other talents.

On Friday at the end of the day I client I have done quite a few TV campaigns for sent me two scripts. The rate for both was pathetic for one. It was clear he wanted a buy out, meaning he expects usage in perpetuity, which is never good for voice actors. I responded saying that I’d love to help but that the rate won’t work. I sent some suggestions their way, and said that we need to find a rate that is fare for both of us. My hope is that tomorrow we can work something out and that I don’t have to walk away from a long time client. I cannot, though, work for the rate offered. Maintaining industry standard rates matters for multiple reasons, not just for you as a solopreneur working to make  living, but for the some total of our industry as a whole.

If We all Accept Lower Rates, Will Only Get Lower Rates

Your Value Doesn't DecreaseImagine a scenario where we all just stopped negotiating. Let’s say a client offers $200 for two TV commercials with no mention of the length of usage, and instead of trying to negotiate, sort out the details, and explain why buy outs don’t work for us, we all just said “sure.” The implications would be staggering. The clients, then, would assume there is nothing wrong with this sweat shop pay, and would assume that our years of coaching and on-going professional development, that our expensive studio equipment, that the service we provide, that none of it has value, and that the can continue to lower and lower the rates. Where will it end? How low will they go? I shudder at the thought, and fear that if we are not willing to walk away, these bargain basement rates will become more and more common. You must know your worth and be willing to stand up for it.

Sometimes Client’s Genuinely Don’t Know and Need to Be Educated

As hard as this is to believe, sometimes clients are not actually trying to drive rates down. Sometimes they genuinely have no idea where the rates should be set and it is up to us to educate them. I have had this conversation with many other voice talents, and this is often the case. Often those casting us have never worked with voice actors before. Perhaps they were tasked with hiring a voice actor by someone else, and they know nothing about it. It’s possible, especially in eLearning, that they come from Human Resources or Academia and they know little to nothing about casting. When this is the case, a conversation about rates becomes a wonderful opportunity instead of frustrating and contentions.

Imagine How much Less You would Make If you Took the bottom Number on Every Job

Think about your financial goals for the month. Then think about your financial goals for the year. Then think about that over a three year period. Imagine, then, what would happen if you made 10% less on each job? Worse, what if you made 30% less on each job? It’s not just about having money to live off of and pay bills, at such a large income reduction, it will also effect your ability to save for the future and for your retirement. As solopreneurs, every booking we get matters in and of itself and in terms of building our client base. Each booking also matters for the industry as a whole. We all impact each other’s earning potential.

Where can you find Guides for Industry Standard Rates

If you are looking for sources or rates guides, let me refer you to three:

  • The GVAA Rates Guide is extremely thorough and covers most of what you need: https://globalvoiceacademy.com/gvaa-rate-guide-2/
  • The Gravy for The Brain Rates Guide is very specific, allows you to search by genre and usage, and is also great for EU and UK clients:

    Rate Guide

  • The SAG rate guide cal also be extremely helpful: https://www.sagaftra.org/contracts-industry-resources/voiceover

Think About the End Goal: Earning a Consistent, Sustainable Income

In the end, we all want to earn a consistent, sustainable income. I remember hearing Bill DeWees, one of my first mentor’s in voice over, talk about this back in 2015. Yes! That what I needed, consistency. But a consistent income doesn’t just fall into your lap, it requires a rigorous blend of hard work and a willingness to negotiate. If you can’t stand up for what you’re worth, you’ll never get it.

Filed Under: Rates, Voiceover Tagged With: Bill DeWees, booking, buy out, buyout, client education, coach, commercial, Gravy for the Brain, GVAA, income, industry standard rates, negotiating, professional voice actor, rates, SAG, social medial, solopreneur, usage, video game, VO, voice over, voice over coach, voiceover, working creative

Be Careful Who Represents You In VO

January 24, 2021 by Laura Schreiber

Common Beliefs or Misconceptions in Voice Over

Screwing Up is Part of SuccessWhen I started in voice over years ago, I remember thinking that when I had an agent I will have “made it.” I remember Screwing Up is Part of Success”one of my coaches telling me that she worked for five years before she had her first agent, so that I could align my expectations. At that point, I did not even know about managers. I was lucky, I was able to get on quite a few agents rosters pretty early in my voiceover career. As a working professional, I would hear a lot of chatter on social media about various agents and managers and how to get signed, as if somehow getting on the roster would lead to the ultimate success.

While I understood early on that being represented by these wonderful regional agents meant that I had more opportunities available to audition for, I was in no way guaranteed success. I did not understand that having a manager was not the same thing. I had hoped, quite naively, that as the manager took both a monthly retainer and a percentage of booked work, they would work harder to make deals happen. Boy, was I wrong. More than a year after I severed ties with my manager, I am still undoing the damage that was done. Here is just a glimpse of the reality of what choosing the wrong person to represent you can end up like.

The Email…

Like most successful female voice talents, I do a lot of direct emails. One of the groups of people I target are radio station managers and program directors to grow my radio imaging business. This week I reached out to a station manager again who had wanted to sign me for a monthly retainer in 2019. In 2019 “Mike” called me. We chatted and he was ready to move forward. I handed him off to my manager and never heard from him again. This week, in response to my friendly email check in, I received this message:

Hi Laura,

Sorry, I did not. Last year when I was interested in working with you, I was told that our station was not big enough for your services. That’s why I have not followed up.

This email got me very upset for several reasons. First, I was ready to move forward, my manager who was supposed to represent me, acted in a way that did not represent me. Next, I lost this station which would have been a monthly retainer. Third, this was not only a loss of revenue, it reflected badly on my business and my brand. Fourth, and perhaps most upsetting, this was one of six stations in a six week period that my manager blew deals with. Six stations, that would have ranged between $150 and $500 in monthly retainers, yet I was contractually obligated to pay him his monthly retainer for the remainder of the year. So, let’s dive deeper.

If I Had Leads, Why Sign With A Manager in the First Place?

There were two main reasons I signed with this manager. First, as a working creative and small business owner, one of the hardest aspects of the job is negotiating rates. I have always worked to maintain industry standard rates, often siting both the GVAA Rate Guide and the GFTB Rate Guide to clients. I had felt that I was low-balled on the the last few imaging retainers I had negotiated prior to my talks with the manager. I did not feel that it was related to my ability or experience, it just seemed that I kept getting the same sob story from every single station. None of them had any money. They all wanted so much for so little. It was crazy. I had hoped that with the manager negotiating the rates, each station would be in the ball park of the rates cards, even if the manager now got a cut.

My other hope was that if I was able to seal the deal with more lucrative stations because of the manager, then some of the top agencies like Atlas or CESD would take notice of me and would sign me. I have felt so close to making this step, and just needed something to push me over the edge. I saw other very well known and amazingly talented voice actors post that they were booking stations with the help of this manager. They were then getting repped by these agencies. I also knew some talents at these agencies who were on this mangers roster. It was not hard to connect the dots and in truth did not even seem like a leap of faith. It seemed like a common sense, savvy move. Well, sometimes the evidence can be very misleading.

the Damage

Pushing BoundariesI signed with this manager specifically for the Radio Imaging part of my business in January 2019. Within the first week, I sent him 5 leads of stations who wanted to sign me and wanted to negotiate retainers. The email above was a call I got a week later. Of these leads, my manager destroyed every single one of them. I was not on the calls. I had empowered him to speak on my behalf. The email above “I was told that our station was not big enough for your services.” is a glimpse of how these prospects were treated in my name. Was this the road to the big agencies? No. Worse, when he tried to renegotiate the stations I had, I lost them. There were other odd quirks about the manager. He wanted any auditions to be professionally mastered, which was an added expense. He also sent Sound and Fury auditions, but I get those from other agents, so now I was paying him to get auditions I was already getting. It was terrible. I realized early on and I was stuck. I basically had to stop soliciting all Radio Imaging business or it would be tied to him. Years of hard work and planning came to a screeching halt. Be careful who you pick to represent you.

Undoing the Damage

First I had to wait until I could give him notice as per my contract. As soon as I legally could, I did. Then, as soon as I was legally out of contract, on 1/20/2020. I began reaching out to stations to tell them I was no longer with the manager and that if they were so inclined they could negotiate directly with me to learn my market availability. It was too soon, there were no bites. No one would even reply. I continue to circle back to the stations that were interested. Now I have updated my demo, and my hope is that with some time, and fresh branding, I can rebuild.

https://youtu.be/nrobFDWQVmI

Lessons Learned

THE BEST PERSON TO SPEAK FOR ME IS ME. If you want clients to get to know you and how great you are, then you have to be the one to work with them. If you really feel that you need someone to negotiate on your behalf, you had better make sure you know the tone and tenor of what they are saying

Filed Under: agents, Client Relationships, Rates, Voiceover Tagged With: agents, Atlas, CESD, client relationships, clients, managers, missteps, negotiating, predators, professional female voice actor, program directors, radio, Radio imaging, radio station managers, regrets, representation, represents, retainer, small business owner, VO, voice over, voice over industry, voiceover, works for you

Another Instance of Why the VO Community Matters So Much

December 13, 2020 by Laura Schreiber

Now More than Ever…

Laura Schreiber and Industry Friends in NYC
With Uncle Roy, Lynn Norris, Michelle and Steve Sundholm, and my sister Julie Levin in NYC in Chinatown SOVAS Weekend

I think we can all agree that 2020 has presented us with some challenges. For those of us who enjoy the close knit voice over community, from the myriad of conferences each year to traditional events like Uncle Roy’s BBQ and Christmas Parties in NYC, when you work alone in a padded foam booth, interacting with others in voiceover is so much more than a chance to network. Any of us who go to these events will tell you about the gooey sweet bonding that happens between the karaoke and the shop talk. So the lack of face time in 2020 has been hard, but for me, the presence of social media groups, especially on Facebook (as much as I hate to admit it) has helped fill the gap. I feel like I still “see” my dear friends and have a sense of how they are and what’s going on. More than that, I crave the interaction, look for their posts, and try to be responsive. For me, these voice over groups on social media are not a distraction, they continue to give me a sense of connection when we are all forced to be distanced at the moment. This week, these connections in my Facebook voice over community genuinely helped me through an experience from a pay to play that had me feeling pretty exasperated.

The Frustrating Experience of this Week

Laura Schreiber at WoVo Con in Las Vegas with Industry Friends
Laura Schreiber with Michelle Blenker, Diana Birdsall, David Rosenthal, Lisa Suliteanu, and Kim Handysides at WoVoCon in Las Vegas in 2017!

On Thursday I got one of those messages we all love: I had been cast in a national spot. Spoiler: wait before you start celebrating for me, it does not end well. The initial offer was low and it needed negotiating, which in no way scared me off, negotiating is part of the job, right? But the good news was that they wanted me and I was available. The message came through Voice123 and the client asked me to call him right away. I called the client back immediately. I spent a long time chatting with the client. The spot was actually more regional in use but the client wanted national rights to not have to deal with his client more later. Fine. We also discussed pricing for web and social media. He was pleasant and very specific. He wanted a zoom session Friday morning. I gave him a choice of times and he said he would get back to me. I had a 5 pm zoom on Thursday and I was in a really good mood during that call. When I got off of that call, I got an email from the client. He said his client no longer had the budget and was going to use an in-house voice. They were going to use an in-house voice for a national spot? Are you kidding me? And he wasted so much of my time. I was really annoyed. I was aggravated. Frankly, I was pissed off.

I Was NOT Alone….

One of my VO besties suggested I post it on Facebook. We have a VO Red Flags group, and I also decided to post in our V123 Platinum members group. My wheels were turning and I was curious if he had interacted with anyone else. I wanted to see how others would have reacted and if this had happened to anyone else recently.

Laura Schreiber and Industry Friends at Uncle Roy's BBQ
Kim Handysides, Shelley Avellino, Devla Trainor, and Laura Schreiber at Uncle Roy’s BBQ in NJ

I got an immediate response in the V123 group. This guy had been making his rounds to other top voiceover talents. He had been negotiating with one male talent all week, since Monday! He had contacted other female voice actors at my level who also book a lot on that platform to negotiate with them! For some reason I have not seen my post go up in the Red Flags group yet. Sometimes that happens.

Laura Schreiber and Industry Friends at VOA
Michelle Blenker, Michelle Sundholm, Diana Birdsall, and Laura Schreiber and VO Atlanta 2018

The point, though, is that I felt much better having a community to discuss this with. I was not alone in my booth, or alone in my kitchen talking it through with my husband. I was part of a pretty awesome group of talents dealing with this together. I went from feeling angry to being thankful for having such awesome people. I realized this guy was outnumbered. He had heard over and over and over that his budget was too low. We were all in sync. The reason that there are industry standard rates and that we can all work so hard to maintain them is because those of us in the industry are such a cohesive, tight knit network.

So to be clear, the response that I got on Facebook this week had both an emotional impact on my stability and also, at the same time, showed the impact of the VO bond on our business. By communicating and remaining close, we all benefit. It is so so important that we stick together!

So cheers to a better 2021, and to seeing you all in person, so that I can give you all a big hug and we can have some fun together again! I am so profoundly thankful for this community.

Filed Under: Voiceover Tagged With: female voice actors, live session, negotiating, rates, Uncle Roy’s BBQ, VO, VO Red Flags, voice over, voice over community, voice over conferences, Voice123, voiceover, Zoom

VOcationNYC Year 1- WOW!

September 22, 2019 by Laura Schreiber

Conference for VOs Run by VOs

As a working mom, when I heard that there was a voice over conference with a focus on “the business of the business” right here at home in NYC, I did not hesitate to sign up, especially when I learned that Carin Gilfrey and Jamie Muffett were running it! From the start, VOcation was extremely well conceived. There is something so special about a conference run by voice actors for voice actors. It goes beyond the over all vibe. From the little details like having talents sign up to announce the speakers, to the clever swag they gave away, this dynamic duo thought of everything.

Panel of Working Pros

I can’t tell you how fantastic it was that the kick off panel on the main stage, moderated by Jamie, was three amazing women talents. Two of them, Elissa Zhea and Maria Pendelino, are union talents, and Joey Shaljo is a non-union talent like me. Simply put, these gals are killing it. They addressed all sorts of issues like when to make the jump to full-time, the unique situation of working in New York City and how leaving the city changes your business, and accounting. These women spoke so well. They set the bar high for the rest of us. Not only did they teach us well, they set a standard well for which we should all aspire to. In an industry where 65% of the bookings are male, I applaud Carin and Jamie’s voice to start the weekend with these women. It could not have been better.

Emphasis on marketing

Any solopreneur can tell you that marketing is essential to maintaining client relationships and growth, and the VOcation team sure had this in mind when they planned key sessions as well. I very much enjoyed Tracy Lindley, Joe Davis, Brad Newman, and Tom Dheere. I have heard Tracy, a LinkedIn expert, speak at other conferences too. To her credit, she always speaks about something different. This time she focussed on strategies for effective messaging. I hung on her every word and ate it up: it’s as if she knew just what I needed and was talking to me! Thank you, Tracy! Joe Davis of voice actor websites spoke about best ways to optimize your website for SEO. Joe’s team has been doing my website since 2015, so I enjoyed getting the most up to date tips from him. Like Tracy, Joe exudes a passion and genuine eagerness to help others, which makes him a true joy to be in the same room with. Good choice again, Carin and Jamie! I confess that I did not get to attend Brad’s break out session but to plan to attend at WoVoCon. I have the slides and they are incredible. Brad is super smart and I trust his business instinct any day of the week. He has been doing my hosting for years and I can’t wait to hear him speak. Last but certainly not least, was Tom Dheere. I was so excited to meet Tom and learn from him. I have a few industry friends who have been coached by Tom. I see why they all like working with him. Tom’s organized approach to Direct marketing would teach any new talent how to build a strong foundation. The marketing components of the conference were great!

The Future of VO

J. Michael Collins delivered the key note address on the future of voice over. JMC as we often call him is dynamic and inspirational. Everyone knows him and everyone loves him in our industry. At one point he remarked that if you think the sky is falling, move over. His talk was uplifting and optimistic. He gave hope and spoke of current trends. We are lucky to have such a competent talent walking among us. JMC is a good egg and his success brings success to us all. Like the women in the first panel, I believe he also sets the bar high. By keeping his standards high in the demos he produces and the talents he works with, this if good for the industry as a whole.

Overall Takeaways

Like everyone, I had panels that I loved and could sit through over and over again and panels that made me wish I were shopping at Bergdorffs. Maria Pendelino’s panel on negotiations was a home run. It was my favorite panel of the conference and if you don’t know her you should. Maria is a rock star genius and major goddess of voiceover who is making our entire industry better. Both of the panels on casting were not my favorites. There was nothing wrong with them per se, they just lacked the scintillating genius moments that I tend to cling to.

Lastly, I have heard from friends who were not at the conference that they had friends who complained about the venue and the picnic lunches. My response is that they need awareness about NYC. There will never be a shuttle in NYC. It is not that kind of city. I heard someone complained it was near the subway. In New York, it is a luxury to be near the subway, so having the venue directly across from the express subway line was very, very smart of Carin and Jamie. Further, space and food are extremely costly in New York. Options for talent were either to go out to eat on their own as I did or the provided lunch. There is always a choice, you just have to understand your options. For those who are not local, perhaps a better approach might be to reach out to one of us in advance next time, I’d be happy to go out for lunch and go shopping:)

Filed Under: Marketing/Branding, Voiceover Tagged With: Business, casting, LinkedIn, Marketing, negotiating, Networking, SEO, solopreneur, symphony space, VO, VOCation, voice actors of NYC, voice over, voiceover

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